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Friday, February 18, 2011

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Very logical -If they didn't leave their starters in it might hurt their preparation for the post season. Isn't that right????

According to the whining logic of many last night...Olean should have "called off the dogs" in the second quarter...even though the Huskies entered the game with a lesser record than their opponents.

Like I said before, if a starter gets hurt after being left in too long, or if things get chippy that leads to technicals and suspensions, then shame on the coach for doing so...but saying that it is classless and "not right" from the other side serves no purpose than to "victimize" one self...and for what? For not being good enough, or prepared enough, or tough enough to make the scoreline closer. Guess what...if your team gets blown out, deal with it, learn from it, get better and wait until next time.

TML - reading your thoughts over the last few nights I have lost a lot of respect for what you think and blog. Having coached 31 years in WNY I do not know of one coach who would agree with the way you think. You seem to know the players etc... but your thoughts on winning graciously and with class are showing how you really have no experience dealing with high school athletes. Nor have you ever had experience on the winning and losing side of competition at a high school or higher level. The sad part is that McShea is in the same boat you are. I would like to hear from other coaches in the area on whether you agree with me or not. These thoughts that it is ok to blow teams out by 70 and it is ok not to pull the dogs off are ludicrous !!

Hoopla

There certainly has been a lot of debate about blowouts and whatnot (I'm sure Centercourt would love the debate to continue on here!). I understand what TML is saying. However, as a coach of high school players I would have to respectfully disagree with him, at least to some degree. What everyone has to remember is that these are young men and women we are talking about. Only 14-18 years old. My team this year has been on the wrong side of some blowouts, and without naming any specific teams, there is a lack of class out there. Every program, every team, and every coach has to decide how they want to conduct themselves when it comes to this kind of stuff. Our program does not run up the score on other teams. If we are up by a substantial amount (I'd say 20) we no longer press and we don't shoot 3's. We shoot nothing but layups and foul shots when it comes to that. Unfortunately, a lot of teams will continue to press when they're up 30, 40, 50, etc. To me, that is wrong. It's classless and I don't feel high school student athletes benefit from that. However, we do learn something from these blowouts TML. My team has learned how not to act, and that's why we always teach our players that we would rather be a team of high character and class, rather than a team that's just all about winning. But that's just my opinion.

In fact, I do have experience winning and losing at the scholastic level. I played four years of varsity tennis. I was on my fair share end of lopsided losses at times, particularly in my freshman and sophomore seasons and was also on the other end, defeating some opponents 6-1 6-0 and the like.

Thus, would you say that if I won the first set 6-0 that I should let up in the next set so that my opponent does not feel embarrassed? Let me tell you that when I was beaten soundly, I was upset, but not upset that my opponent "embarrassed me" or was "too hard on me," I was mad at myself that I didn't play better and that I didn't employ a better game plan. Also, not once when I defeated an opponent by a lopsided score did that opponent or their parents or their friends or their coaches say that I was in the wrong for doing so.

What I think is lost in all of this is that very rarely do I hear of the actual players complaining that they lost by 50 points in basketball or lost 12-0 in soccer or they lost 33-0 in baseball after three innings or they lost 6-0 6-0 in tennis and so on and so forth. Most of the time it is the parents and the coaches who do the complaining and try to defend the fact that little Jimmy or little Susie should have been let up on by their opponent(s).

I do have experience dealing with high school athletes...both as I myself was one, with teammates and more recently with athletes I have connections with. In no instance was the discussion largely about the fact that we may have been beaten soundly and to feel sorry for "poor little us," it was to work on what we could do to get better.

Andrew, if you want to take the stance of teaching life lessons on how to be a person with class, then I am all for it. However, when you get down to it, these are games...there are winners and losers. One has to expect going in that there will be times when you or your team get beaten badly. How one learns from that is up to you.

I don't appreciate people assuming what experiences I have had and how I have dealt with those experiences and with other athletes. Personally I don't feel that one should feel sorry for kids that are on the wrong end of a lopsided scoreline...there are far more important things in life that should be taken seriously. Again, when I and those I am close with have been on that side of the coin, we didn't pout and cry, we worked to get better and took those lessons with us.

Additionally, I haven't said that I personally, if I was coaching, would leave my starters in and continue to blow a team out by 50, 60, whatever. To me, the risk of injury to my players and the risk of the game getting too chippy and technicals and suspensions entering the equation would be more than enough to "call off the dogs." However, when there are instances of bench players playing well before the final whistle and the score remaining a blowout, I ask you...what should a team or coach do? Stop playing?

Yes...there is a proverbial line, but blowing out an opponent doesn't mean a team has crossed that line. Better teams will blow out lesser teams...it happens in every sport. I don't see many people complaining about 14-0 hockey scores or 20-1 softball scores or wrestlers who get pinned in 10 seconds. But when it comes to basketball there seems to be this "great debate," and those of us who don't feel that protecting students from blowouts is always necessary are seemingly vilified and said to have no experience with high school athletes.

To me it is a simple difference in philosophy and neither stance can really be labeled as wholly right or wrong.

Of course it's not all about winning, Andrew. I can tell you that I have learned many a lesson from being on the wrong end of lopsided scorelines.

I have no personal desire to embarrass someone nor do I want to see teams get embarrassed, sometimes teams lose by a lot.

I want to see high school athletes do their best, learn from their experiences and hopefully grow as people and carry those lessons with them the rest of their lives.

TML - by just playing four years of tennis does not show any coaching experience. Sure you learned how to be on a team but in know way have you experienced the comeradery of being with kids for hours each day. Watching them get embarrassed for no reason would change your mind. You seem to be the typical fan who sits in the stands and has never had the real relationship needed to understand what Andrew and I are talking about. You can talk to any coach and they will all tell you "PULL THE DOGS OFF !!" The more you explain things the more I understand why you think and blog the way you do. Blowing a team out is different than pressing the entire game. The blow out would still occur by 30 instead of 70.

Well...tell me when I've ever said I have coaching experience at the high school level.

If you're playing in a game, there's never no reason you're getting embarrassed. If you lose by a very lopsided scoreline, the reason for it is that the team was not good enough and the other team was better.

Again...I never said that I hope to see teams leave starters in the whole game in a blowout or want to seem teams get embarrassed...that's simply you putting words in my mouth. I do know many athletes on teams and also know that I've never been privy to them complaining about their opponents embarrassing them after lopsided losses...because they don't, they think about how they can improve. What I'm saying is I'm not going to feel sorry for teams on the losing end of blowouts.

I've said all I can on this matter...if you want to continue to think I'm some hard-headed, know-nothing fan, then I can't change that but through my explanation I'd like to think the majority of people will see where I'm coming from. In the end, if a kid is that broken up about losing by 60 points and is more saddened that they lost by that much rather than focusing on how they can improve...they should think about focusing on another one of their interests

East with the big win over North. North almost seemed like they just want to fast forward a week to playoffs. Didn't seem to have the same intensity that I have seen from them earlier this year. I believe if they get that intensity back they match up well against Mckinley. East was also raining 3s, whether they were open or contested everything was dropping.

East with the big win over North. North almost seemed like they just want to fast forward a week to playoffs. Didn't seem to have the same intensity that I have seen from them earlier this year. I believe if they get that intensity back they match up well against Mckinley. East was also raining 3s, whether they were open or contested everything was dropping.

@ Hoopla. There's nothing sad about what anyone feels about this topic, and let's be real -- it's not like I'm pro-running-it-up. I'm not. What was said about blowouts in the chat was relative to the Jamestown girls' game in particular. The team plays everyone regularly and plays an up-tempo style all of the time, and I said repeatedly that games like that are just going to happen. When teams have starters in too long and I'm in attendance, I've certainly written/blogged about it being a bad thing. I think hyper-sensitivity over this issue (translation: repeated whining) blows it out of proportion.

Let that discussion END with Keith. Well said. Just not that interesting of a topic.

Looking forward 2 Canisius-Joe's part 3. I give Joe's a SLIGHT edge.

Also looking forward 2 c where CC and Keith will b this Friday 4 Sectional quarterfinals. CC please post Keith owes us a dinner.

Rumor has it Taplin sat out the 1st half vs East? Can anyone confirm this or does the subject just not matter because it was just a nonleague game after they had already clinched the 3 seed?

He didn't start and came in around the five minute mark of the first quarter. He looked out of it all game.

Polls and posts up for each bracket, boys and girls, Section VI and Monsignor Martin. Whew.

TML, thanks for clarifying that. Were you there? Do you know why he didn't start?

I was there...I've seen Joe's and the Falls a bunch of times and just didn't feel like siting in a very cramped gym.

It actually was a pretty enjoyable game...neither team was very aggressive on defense.

I completely agree with you, TML. Sports are supposed to be competitive and teach kids how to win and be successful. The whole mentality these days of "take it easy on the weak to protect their feelings" is one of the reasons half this country's on welfare and expect things to be handed to them. What happened to survival of the fittest?

What about the kids that work their butts off every day in practice and get no reward for their work with playing time? This is not just about the teams that are not good and I have never said that you should stop playing offense. There is a win-win scenario in this whole mess. Forget about building a killer instinct, forget about losing your edge by slowing the ball down those scenarios just don't exist in a blowout. You have already established a killer instinct and a competitive edge by getting up by that much. Get your starters out of the game, put in the last five guys on the bench, don't press and score as many points as you want. Sports is competitive and there is nothing wrong with winning but there are other lessons that can be taught at the same time. Its called sportsmanship and respect.

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