Poll Ballots - Week Two

As a pollster for the Buffalo News, I'm asked to send in my weekly ballots ranking the top ten large and small schools.  The polls are based on games played through Sunday of each week.  Here's a look at how I see them and some of the rationale used to get there.

 

Large Schools

1. Niagara Falls (AA) - Opened league play by holding Grand Island to just 24 points.  A good gauge of where these guys are at will come tonight at Kenmore West.

2. Canisius (MMA) - The Crusaders already own 77-53 win against Kenmore West and could move up on this ballot after the New Year, depending on how tonight goes.

3. Jamestown (AA) - The Class AA state finalists are now 3-0 and most recently defeated Williamsville South after taking a 24-point lead into the fourth quarter. 

4. Bishop Timon/St. Jude (MMA) - Slip behind the Red Raiders after struggling to finish off the Billies.

5. St. Joe's (MMA) - The gaudy double-double stat lines are piling up for Reggie Agbeko and so are the wins for the Marauders, now 5-0 against opponents from WNY.

 6. McKinley (A1) - The Macks didn't play this week and their next game isn't until January 4th at Hutch-Tech.

7. Riverside (A2) - Moved them up to this spot after seeing...

8. Kenmore West (AA) - the Blue Devils loss to Canisius.  Don't get me wrong, I like these guys and I think their size inside with Campbell, along with their athleticism will present problems for most teams they face.  But I'd give Riverside a slight edge at this point.  They have a chance to turn all sorts of heads tonight when they host Falls.

9. Hutch-Tech (A1) - Hoping to beat Akron tonight and gain a matchup with St. Mary's for their efforts.

10. Williamsville South (A1) - The additions of Chaquille Nettles and Trent Ferguson, along with the players who have come up through the Billies basketball program have combined to make this team a contender for a third straight Class A1 title.

 

Small Schools

1. Olean (B1) - The easiest choice on either ballot, hands down.

2. St. Mary's (MMA) - As much as I was impressed by Olean last week, I thought the Lancers showed a lot of character in their loss to the Huskies.  They have talent all over, but they are also tough - as evidenced by the way they refused to go away.  The "Big 3" large schools in the MMA have a big time challenge in front of them when they face the Lancers this year.

3. OTC/MEC (C1) - Talented team with early losses to a pair of top large schools.  Beat Amherst for their lone win.

4. Depew (B1) - Took care of business against Niagara Catholic.  Travel to Amherst tonight, before hosting Lancaster in their Holiday Tournament over the break with a potential matchup against St. Mary's on the line.

5. Tonawanda (B1) - The Warriors are now 5-0, including a 50-34 win over cross-town rival North Tonawanda.

6. East (B1) - Should be ready to challenge for the Yale Cup after taking some lumps early - losses to Timon, Olean, & Aquinas, and a game at St. Joe's on Thursday.

7. Silver Creek (C2) - Another squad off and rolling with a 5-0 start.  The Black Knights early results include wins over Salamanca, Portville, and Westfield.

8. Panama (D) - Last year, the Panthers split with Cassadaga Valley in two nonleague games.  This season, the Class D favorites opened its season by sweeping last season's overall Class B champs.

9. Maple Grove (C2) - Avenged a near poll-exiting loss to Randolph with a dominating win on Friday.  From what I saw in their win over the Cardinals, the Red Dragons looked like a very cohesive unit that still deserved poll consideration from this pollster.  But the loss to Randolph still costs them a spot.

10. I-Prep (C2) - I gave them the nod after considering the competitive nature of its two losses to quality large schools (St. Joe's & Lockport). 

 

** Walsh almost made this ballot, but beating Lackawanna by 12 looked much less impressive after I saw that Holland did the same thing by nine points.  MST Seneca was also considered, but I thought the quality of I-Prep's losses trumped the Indians' resume of wins.  Dunkirk's results with Olean couldn't be considered for this ballot, but they will for the next one - they trailed by nine after three quarters and lost 53-50.

 

-centercourt

Comments

[jackherlan]

Sorry to say that my alma mater did not look like a top ten team tonight v. NFalls.

[TML1000]

No, they did not...not in the least. There was an inexcusable lack of effort when Falls built somewhat of a lead. Also, and maybe a coach out there can shed some light on this, in this type of a game, why would Meetze pull his starters with two minutes to go in the first quarter? It was a four point Falls lead at that point and five reserves on the floor gave up two more buckets to push it to eight. Nobody was in foul trouble...but the game was basically over at that point.

It seemed on just about every possession from that point forward, KW made poor decisions on both ends of the floor...failing to move the ball on offense, rebounding but then turning over the outlet pass, not switching on simple screens that freed up Falls' guards for easy drives. Sure, some mistakes can be attributed to the Falls, but there were very few trademark Falls' on-ball rips, instead turnovers by KW that just shouldn't happen.

Sure, the Falls is good, but it's not as if they have size that can overwhelm or as if they were shooting lights out. The Falls actually missed quite a lot of FT's, or it might have been even worse. The biggest thing I took away is that KW is extremely undisciplined in passing and shot selection and refuse to work consistently on defense. The Falls made good decisions and took advantage of the lack of effort. Yes, Bailey picked up his third foul in the second quarter, but that is just another part of making bad decisions.

KW may be able to get by the rest of the NFL playing in this manner, but there is no way they're going to hang with a good team for 32 minutes. Williams was particularly strong for NF...made some great cuts to the hoop and pulled up in the mid-range at times. The lack of a post presence will hold them back from going further than they could, but that shouldn't be a problem throughout the sectionals.

[PJB]

KW Offensive execution was poor. Failed to get the ball to Campbell, that is where they could get some good looks. The third on Bailey in the first half was big, but the time Campbell missed in the second qtr (fouls) and third qtr (injury)was much more important. NF was playing volleyball on the boards when he was not in the game and NF bigs could help on drives without worry.

NF was just a far better team in all phases of the game.

[Patrick Moran]

Didn't get to see the KW vs Niagara Falls game, but from what you guys are talking about, I pretty much saw the same thing when KW played Canisius. West is athletic and has some good players, but they looked very sloppy, took some terrible shots, way too much one-on-one and took some bad fouls.

I'm sure they are better what they've showed, but I was very unimpressed with them as a whole.

[jackherlan]

I got the impression that the coach may have been displeased with the players that got yanked early on but that is just a guess. I really didn't think the intensity level of the game was very high for either side. Falls was clearly the better team for the following reason they have athletic basketball players rather than athletes that play basketball. Can at times be a huge difference.

[McShea is God]

I have 2 say this year's Large school top 10 as a whole is the worst in YEARS. Seriously the teams at 3, 4, 5...K West, H Tech, W South would not even SNIFF the Top 10 in most years. It's just a bad down year.

2 other things. I can't believe one year from 2day the world will end. Crazy.

Also CC is a good driver and the Pizza at Maple Grove was outstanding.

[centercourt]

Sal gave the same reason for winning so handily to the Gazette's Ryan Nagelhout. Below is his quote and a link to the article.

“I think we’re just better basketball players and I think tonight we showed that,” Constantino said. “They play hard, they’re great athletes, but you saw when we build that lead they let down a little bit.”

http://niagara-gazette.com/sports/x1243758960/Falls-wins-big-at-West

[Dark TML]

I think West is a decent team. However I do think they are in that second tier of teams behind Canisius, the Falls, and Jamestown. I agree with Jack Herlan assessment that the Falls is a team of basketball players, Wilkins, Williams, Crumpton, and Burton, while Ken West is a team of athletes. Bailey may be the only exception. He can hold his own with any guard in WNY.

[Hoopfan]

Bailey can hold his own but White and Wilkins are both better guards and that was obvious in those games.

[TML1000]

I really don't think White is that much better than Bailey...White certainly a better passer, but Bailey probably better at the hoop...both solid on ball defenders...White of course with a much better team so he can distribute much more with confidence...neither are particularly strong shooters.

Wilkins has impressed me more than any other guard thus far...he has improved from last year and really works on both sides of the ball. I still don't know what position Canisius sees Crumpton playing. Campbell is the only basketball specific player on West...and I think he's shown that thus far...certainly needs to be more consistent and push himself for 32 minutes.

It's interesting that for as bad as West looked, they may not lose another game all regular season besides the second Falls game. I guess that does say something about the large schools this year. Their matchup with Sweet Home does not look nearly as good with SH losing to Lancaster and then North last night by double digits. The rest of the NFL is just weak and ECIC 1 is not much deeper.

[sal]

I dont get on blogs alot but mark my words KW will be at Buff. St. this year, mike will have them playing by end of season. another subject we have played Timon and scrimmaged Canisius twice and St. Joes once the MM is going to be a fun league. Happy Holidays to everyone

[congrats]

Just wanted to say congrats to Patrick Moran for going through a whole post without mentioning Paige or Bishop Timon once, impressive.

[McShea is God]

Sal it's MERRY CHRISTMAS not Happy Holidays. Any 1 who says Happy Holidays instead is going 2 hell.

Much love 2 all bloggers. Enjoy your family. Patick Moran I'll b over at 5 for Christmas dinner.

[Coaching]

TML, I love the way you mention coaching aspects of the game. You say KW didnt switch on screens vs falls???? Nobody teaches switching on screens. Its called a hedge when comes to defending screens. Stick to watching games not coaching them, you would get rolled! Unreal, so many wanna be coaches.

[TML1000]

You hedge on screens when you have enough length to bother the opposition by doing so on the perimeter. Switching on screens isnt taught? Maybe you should start...but Im sure you will have plenty of luck hedging with undersized players and getting beat with a simple dump off to an open man down low. There's more than one way to teach help defense.....they didnt do any of it in that game. Maybe you should watch more games. Unreal, so many want to know what theyre talking about.

[TML1000]

They probably should have tried a jump switch, especially when Campbell was in their so that he could defend the over the top pass to the screener if he rolled. Since the ball handler so rarely had a defender jump the screen, he had a path to the basket just about everytime he wanted it. Since the Falls were not shooting that well, they could have even slipped under the screen and not even had to switch some of the time, but the it seemed they did neither far too often. Im sure theyve worked on it.

[McShea is God]

I think TML would make 1 HELL of a coach. I can't believe 'coaching' was on this blog on Christmas Day. I mean, c'mon man! I want 2 know does every 1 agree the world is ending Dec 21st 2012?

[Lucky13]

EA vs. Tonawanda in 6pm game at West Seneca West on Tues. 12/27.
WSW and WSE both have newly renovated gyms.Both are beautiful,have open,bright,airy feeling. Check them out.

[Ball]

Whens poll 3 come out?

[centercourt]

The next time the pollsters have to submit their votes to the Buffalo News is Sunday, January 8th. The polls will be weekly after that until Buffalo State week.

[jackherlan]

C'mon CC, do YOU really have to do something just because the News does it a certain way??? Step up be unique. :) Happy New Year!

[TML1000]

As far as the large poll goes, I really wouldn't change it much at all. The Falls was just as, if not more, impressive against KW as Canisius, so I'd leave them slightly ahead. Jamestown and Timon have both kept on winning and play in championship games today out of area, while Joe's plays tonight and tomorrow. McKinley and Riverside have not played in what seems like a month and KW bounced back from the poor effort against the Falls with a 15 point win over Sweet Home and beat KE by 12 last night. They trailed at half and used big third quarters in both games. Nothing really there to move them up or down...Tech lost to Mary's by 15, so they do not move up and South loses to Newfane last night. No unranked large school team has really done anything overly impressive in the last ten days...possibly Frannies would crack the poll with a win tonight. Lockport, who might have been on the bubble, lost to Medina(watch out for Taylor in NOL play)...Wil East/Frontier possibly getting a look for the 10 spot as well.

[centercourt]

I agree, there won't be much movement, if any, for the large schools, based on the reasons you've outlined above. I'm glad to see you're coming around on Falls after stating Canisius was "clearly" the best team in WNY earlier this
month. I still think the two are neck-and-neck, and still think Falls deserves the nod for the reasons I gave in the opening poll ballot.

It's really the small school poll that is madening to do. Newfane, Dunkirk, and Walsh are three teams that have made a major case recently, and I still haven't put MST Seneca on my ballot as I wait to see more from them. The small school poll will definitely look different in another week.

[TML1000]

Yea...really a lot of small schools making cases. Teams being so spread out makes accuracy a near impossibility for anyone. The NOL is really shaping up to be a fun league...even more open then at first look. Not really any team that will not be at least competitive. Newfane, Medina and Akron with nice wins this week...Wilson and CSAT will be right up there...Roy-Hart hung with Tonawanda, Barker has some talent...not sure about Albion but they are usually middle of the pack.

[Panthers]

Any results from the Canisius/Bellarmine game from this afternoon.

[guest]

lost by 12

[guest]

lost by 8

[Panthers]

Did Canisius win the consolation game at the tournament at Georgetown Prep today? Any news on St. Joes Vs. Christian Brothers in Syracuse this evening? Seems getting info is slow once the weekend hits.

[roundman]

canisius won by 12 i think

[Guest]

Joe's beats CBA by 5 to win the CBA tournament. Game one Glover scores 20 and reggie nets 17 as joes mounts a second half comeback against Bishop Grimes.Championship game Reggie scores 31 and wins tournament MVP. Glover joins Reggie and makes all tournament team.

[Food For Thought]

Are we going to get a recap of North-South?
Happy new year to all.

[Panthers]

Happy New Year to all as well. A special congratulations goes out to Coaches Jack Herlan and Mark Simon of St. Joes for their huge victories in Syracuse this weekend. You have once again proven that there is excellent basketball in Buffalo. I especially want to applaud the work you have done with Reggie Agbeko. This kid continues to amaze in his growth as a leader. A double double each outing is unbelievable. POY discussions? We will leave that to the powers that be! "The cream always rises to the top."

The guards, Jordan Glover and Jalen Morris, are proving to be a potent backcourt combo as well. Wishing you much success in your upcoming battles with Bishop Kearney and Aquinas. When do the polls come out? It will be interesting to see what impact these victories have on it and whether the losses by the other teams is taken into consideration.

[Panthers]

Buffalo News did not say much on the Syracuse wins so here are some related articles online.
http://highschoolsports.syracuse.com/news/article/-6829987652347497987/st-josephs-puts-cba-celebration-on-standby-as-maurders-rally-to-defeat-brothers/

http://centralny.ynn.com/content/top_stories/568666/cba-s-wleklinski-denied-milestone-win/

http://www.eaglenewsonline.com/news/2011/dec/30/cba-coaching-milestone-denied-tournament-final/

[Division1]

St. Joes does seem to be coming together in time for MMA play. Was not noted in reports but Agbeko had 13 boards against Bishop Grimes and 15 rebounds against CBA.

[TML1000]

Reggie definitely the POY front-runner at this point.

[guest]

Not Taking anything away from reggie, but 1st team may be loaded with kids that play on teams that they are the only weapon so their numbers will be a bit inflated. 3 kids I think everybody would pick are Reggie-taplin and Stan weir. There are alot of things to be taken into consideration, Kids shouldn't be penalized for playing on teams that are not strong nor should they be penalized for playing on good teams. Letr the games begin on tue.

[TML1000]

Joe's other players are doing well and will only get better. If you have seen Reggie play this year, he is quite easily the most dominant overall player in the area. Put him on Falls or Canisius and he would still be by far the best rebounder, shot alterer and dangerous presence. To me, Taplin is no sure bet as a first teamer, he's looked out of sorts at times, likely a product of North not having other weapons, but he really hasnt been able to take over a game thus far.

[Division1]

Tml I agree with you that Reggie's numbers are not inflated as the guest is suggesting if he were on the Falls, Canisius or Timon. If anything his numbers would probably be better. Joes is a very young team with players from Reggie to last guy in the rotation still trying to figure out there roles. Guards are still trying to figure out if they are scoring guards or traditional pass first guards; majority of the offense in games has gone away from Reggie, but due to his rebounding prowess he has been able to get respectable offensive numbers off the offensive glass. Reggie is averaging right at 15 shots per game, which is a modest number of shots when you take into account that team is averaging about 60 possessions per game. Oliveri is averaging in double figures and Glover is just under 10 a game. Morris and Briggs are around 8 per game. I haven't seen Wier or Taplin play this season but if a single player is averaging 20+ shots per game to average 20-25 points then those would be inflated numbers. Guest, I guess it would be interesting to see what his numbers would be like if he got about 25 shots per game; Problem with that is it hurts the team in the long run.

[guest]

kindly disagree if he was on one of the other teams you stated he wouldavg. less as other guys on team can make plays. Great stats though, i would of thought more shots than that to be honest with you. also please know i am not knocking reggie he is best post player in wny last 2 years,just wondering if kids on better teams get lost in shuffle

[TML1000]

I would say good players on good teams rarely get lost in the shuffle....all the players on first, second and usually third team come from teams that have at least decent success.

[Guest]

Taplin is declining this year more than improving, with not a lot around him teams focus just on him and its tough to score when your getting double teams all the time. I would agree with TML on Reggie.

[jj43]

Saw Taplin at the Jolly Tourny at South on both nights and he is far from a 1st teamer at this point. Havent seen Weir yet but if you compare the way Reggie is carrying his team vs, the way Weir is...not even close. Think Weir was and is better off with a role and not forced tpo be the man. Taplin pouts to much but that should improve with age.

[WNYHOOPS]

Reminds me of the Gronkowski's at Will North in Football. All of them were major talents, but were on sub-par teams with poor coaching. I think you could see once Chris transferred to a Pittsburgh HS, he not only improved from playing with and against better talent, but also better coaching. Playing at a larger stage in Pittsburgh also helped land Chris a big time college scholarship and ultimately a trip straight to New England. Maybe the Taplin family should consider transferring Sterling to a better program such as a Canisius or Joes.

[Airball]

Time to vent

CC, you need to step your game up. It's basketball season and XMAS ended over a week ago so there is no reason for the lack of blogging. I saw you at the South Tournament on the second night taking notes but no write up? Nothing? Hoping 2012 brings more than 2011 ended with! Speaking of 2012, are there any games being played? I wouldn't know because the Buffalo News decided not to do a basketball schedule this season...thanks for that. And don't bother searching through the calendar on their HS homepage that takes 15 minutes to load each page because there are no games listed there either after Jan 3rd. Seriously, there was so much progress for basketball coverage around here beginning when Prep Talk started. Then that basically went away except for live chats but CC stepped up bigtime. But so far this year, no "Top games of the Week" blog and only 1 "Random Smatterings" so far. Not good enough. I'm probably speaking for alot of people. Step it up and since the Buffalo News won't give us a schedule, maybe you could...you seem to know when every game is anyway.

[TML1000]

Not to speak for CC, but doing this blog is not his job. He does it, I assume, as a service to the rest of us bball fans, spectators, etc., in addition to enjoying it. We can all assume that, like the rest of us, the holidays bring a busier time at home. The fact that we have anything here in addition to "traditional" coverage is a bonus in my eyes.

The real culprit in the lack of coverage is section VI. The section VI website is sub par in comparison to that of section V and others, and relies on outside sources to take care of just about everything in terms of sport specific news. They update the postseason schedule in a timely manner, but that's about it. The fact that there is not a section-run boys basketball website is unacceptable....at least a place for a master schedule, stats and updated results, as there now is for girls bball that started this season, under the same domain that girls soccer has had for a few years and is shared with section V. A few sports(wrestling, hockey, boys soccer) have websites run by outside parties, but there is no reason why the section can not run a basic site for every sport.

In terms of the News, the coverage the past week was a bit disappointing...they did not even post anything recapping Wednesday's games or the All-WNY girls soccer team that ran in the paper that day. Sure, Keith has been on vaca, but they could have had someone step in and at least make sure something was up everyday. I'm sure it will ramp back up this week when Keith gets back and as league play begins. The schedule issue is maddening, as it would take anyone with competent computer skills not long to put together a file with a master schedule.

[TML1000]

Also, highschoolsports.net is a fairly reliable site that has just about all of the public school's schedules. You can search by school or by league, so it doesn't take too much effort to get a master schedule.

[Division 1]

Guest, the devil is in the details. St. Joes as a team shoots a very good field goal percentage at 51%, especially with 4 of the teams top 7 rotation players shooting over 44% (Maher-82%, Agbeko-62%, Oliveri-60% and Briggs-44%). Reggie has attempted 139 field goals in 9 games = 15.4 attempts per game and 85 conversions = 9.4 makes. Shooting 62% is your answer my friend, not an issue of putting up a bunch of shots, which translates to similar numbers regardless of whom he is playing with, be it St. Joes, Niagara Falls, Timon, Canisius or John Q Public. He has been doubled and triple teamed in all 9 games this season as teams try to force the ball out of his hands. Good thing is young guys have made shots and they defend well as a unit. Team has and is growing rapidly but you are right that it is all decided on the hardwood and only 1/3 of the season has been played. It should be an interesting rest of the season. Haven't seen Wier or Taplin this season; Wier already has signed that NLI so he is good but in Taplin's case he has spent last couple of years learning to carry a team, now in his last two years is when he should be learning to play with similar talent, and learning to seperate himself from that type of talent.

http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/st-josephs-collegiate-institute-marauders-(buffalo,ny)/basketball/stats.htm

[guest]

Division 1 , i am impressed. thanks

[Guest]

I would tend to agree with Division I. When people looked at Joe's in the pre season they saw a team full of names that they hadn't seen before. This isn't a team that has been playing together for the past three years like the others have. To this point they have gotten better and better by the quarter, and have been getting used to playing with each other which occurs on any level. Chemistry is indeed important and the chemistry on that team has steadily improved. These young men can play and people can blog and talk all they want to but again the games have to be played, that just doesn't just go for Joe's but for all teams in WNY. Should be a fun 2012! Enjoy

[McShea is God]

Bottom line Joe's will lose 2 Canisius 3 times.

[Roundman]

Canisius easy win against Ohara.

[Patrick Moran]

MIG- so you're assuming St. Joe's will beat Timon in the playoffs this year?

(PS- whoever said they got a whole post without me mentioning Paige or Timon, you were wrong)