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Tuesday, January 15, 2013


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"Big Week ahead for Falls"? Joke right? Too bad they play such weak opponents, it is what it is but they are not #1 just due to ther win over Kearney which wasn't even a very good game just close. Lots of games remaining to judge.

I just looked at the actual poll (link below). Cleveland Hill is ahead of Nichols, despite losing to them.

Also, Newfane is 10th and CSAT (who beat Newfane) is unranked. And East Aurora (who beat CSAT) is unranked.

All I can say is...Dude?!?


Agree the actual poll is a joke. How could Joe's who went TO McKinley and beat them b TIED w them. It's amazing how people ignore RESULTS - like the fact Jamestown BEAT Joe's on a court Joe's is much more familar with.

I agree w you top 10 except I still think Canisius is #1 and I dropped Clarence to 9th.

Smalls schools I go Olean, Silver Creek, Nichols, Cleveland Hill (yes a joke Nichols is behind them), East, OTC, Maple Grove, St Mary's, Lackawanna, Newfane. I now think with the PG East would have beaten Mary's and M Grove just like I still think Olean beats Nichols w Sam. Newfane did lose 2 CSAT but CSAT has some bad losses as does EA and Newfane beat a few good teams.

But yes some of the poll results make u wonder if people r paying attention. Kind of like the idiots who put Obama back in office!

I just can't get with you on the Newfane thing.

The loss to CSAT was at home. CSAT lost at East Aurora. Newfane lost to Amherst by 29. Amherst needed a buzzer-beater to get past East Aurora. EA has also won 5 straight. Newfane is 3-2 over its last five games.

It makes no sense that Cleve Hill is ahead of Nichols on the Buffalo News final poll. I think CC has it right. Nichols beat Cleve Hill and Nichols latest losses are two teams that are significantly better than any opponent on Cleve Hills schedule. If Keith and CC both had Nichols ahead of them, all the other voters must be ignoring the facts....I'd like to hear from the other pollsters on their reasoning...

I can't understand why Canisius crushes BK at home by 20 and Falls beats them at home in OT yet somehow Falls is #1. Obokoh didn't play vs Canisius true. Vs Falls he had 11 points and 6 rebounds. God's power or whatever that kids name is had at least that vs Canisius and barely played vs Falls. I mean, it's the only common team we have 2 go by since Falls decided 2 play 'Webster Schorder' who isn't even honorable mention in the State poll instead of Canisius.

The 2 games - both at home - one was tied after 4 the other game a team won by 20. So u r saying Obokoh - who WAS LIMITED in the Falls game - he did NOT play more than 20 minutes - was worth 20 points and whatever Godspower scored vs Canisius? And I know about Olean. I think Olean COULD beat Falls at full strength if Falls hadn't played a game yet and Olean had played a couple. I think both would play Olean 10 times and go like 8-2.

Maybe they lose 2 Aquinas and McKinley and make me look bad, but I think they r a clear #1

After seeing NORTH on SAT. I can't agree. TAPLIN is the Real deal and Washington and BERKUN have rheir moments but they are VERY SOFT INSIDE and have NO DEPTH. They are a decent perhaps even dangerous team but far from elite IMO.

I don't think a 20-point swing from a kid who's 6-11 and will play for Syracuse next year is that much of a stretch. Just his presence inside would have likely reduced what Canisius did offensively - it's not just about whether or not he scores 20 points.

Also, Thomas Bryant, the other D1 lock at Kearney, sat the entire 2nd quarter at Canisius.

I too wish Falls played either Canisius, Olean, or both. But that doesn't make Webster Schroeder an unworthy oppponent. They're 9-1 with the only loss AT Fairport by 5.

Fairport beat Bishop Kearney with no Obokoh by 14.

Using state rankings as a reference is not much different than using standings. Webster Schroeder is only an HM in AA, but Fairport, who beat them by 5 at home is ranked 3rd in NYS Class AA. Makes no sense. Will North, who lost at home to Clarence, is ahead of Webster Schroeder.

State rankings have Amherst ahead of Timon.

CSAT was down by 26 points at Newfane and a lacks Newfane team came out and played casual basket ball while Darnell Carson scored 25 of his game high 35 in the secong stanza.Newfane clearly beat themselves by allowing a 33-7 run in the second half.you can cut that games into a million pieces but they needed a superman effort from Carson to even see the score board..and to take nothing from Darnell....i think hes a super player....well hes rhe reason they won...and the won by 4 (four)and several game winning shots were passed up and this conversation doesnt exist....great effort and congrat to CSAT.......there some sleepers out in that neck of the woods..only time will tell..but take Darnell away or he gets (i wont say it)you wont see those four letter anymore...its DarSAT!!!!!open for debate if anyone thinks that not so...and newfane played east last year at home and i cant find the score.....but at times the hieght was so uneven it almost wa comical....and we only had 2-3 seniors.....rest were junior who have never seen guys that tall yet played them but if i recall it was a nail biter.......anuone can beat anyone on a given day......teams have won big games the same way theyve lost them......but i sure have noticed a great deal of sportsmanship and thats what gets me more into the game....after all the yellin and so on and the buzzer goes off.....so does the dislike you naturally carry during the game in a good clean way....and the Amhearst game.....when they got down they seemed to lose that thing that makes them a tough team....and 2 losses....1 was to a Large school at jolly boys tourney and ate usually invited for (CHUM)....till the knocked willsouth out of their own tourney and did you notice the played St Fransis first..you would like to think they would want another crack at newfane......but they knew better or they would have been in both game 1 of their own tourney!!!!lots of ball to play and i can tell you now there will be plenty of upsets in the future.......nice chatting guys TTYS....wake to attend....and BTW CC.....great job on your picks and what would this be if you all voted the same.....but i like your looks Keith!!!!!!

...and I thought I use alot of ...'s my I post.

The actual poll has Newfane at 10, but if you click prep talk and read how the news voted they have EA in that 10th spot with reasons for them being there, so its messed up. Having EA in that spot is the correct place, just like you put them there and they will only get better.. if we had to go further you would have to put Maryvale,CSAT right behind them. Teams will start to seperate themselves this time of year and the cream will rise to the top.

It's not messed up. Both Keith & I voted EA at #10, but apparently out of the other eight pollsters, they didn't fare so well.

My votes are shown here. Keith's are shown on Prep Talk. The HS homepage at the News shows the culmination of all votes.

If you meant that it's messed up that the others didn't vote the same way we did, thus keeping EA out of the top 10, I agree.

Why not have Depew #10 didn't they BEAT East Aurora or am I missing something.

The PG who had TWENTY SEVEN POINTS vs Canisius played like ONE quarter vs Falls cause he had foul issues. Somehow that fact seems to escape u and Keith. And if he stinks, how did he have 27 points?

James does the state rankings 4 Rochester so he clearly doesn't feel Webster deserves 2 b ranked. I guess u could argue u know more about Rochester basketball than him, I don't know.

As far as Amherst being ahead of Timon sometimes the State guy factors in records regardless of which way he is told to rank them.

I wouldn't have Depew at 10 because since then, they lost to Lancaster (beat by Maryvale) and Maryvale. And as I previously wrote, EA has won five straight, including CSAT and Maryvale. So yes, you were missing something.

I never said the PG for BK (Antwoine Anderson) stinks. I like him a lot. But unlike Thomas Bryant, he's never had Boeheim, Wright, or Huggins in attendance to recruit him. Obviously there's a huge difference between the two. Someone had to step up and score some points for BK against Canisius since both D1 players were out. We should probably let those coaches know that Anderson scored 27 so he can score a full ride.

By the way, vs. Canisius, Bryant left the game with 3:23 left in the first QUARTER and did not return until the 2nd half. That's huge. I just don't know how you could argue that BK was even close to the same team that night.

Johnson CLEARLY doesn't think Webster Shroeder should be ranked? They are ranked #2 in Section V and you just got done writing that sometimes the "State" guy does what he wants, regardless of which way he's told to rank them. Also, if state rankings are so important, why doesn't Keith do them for WNY? I guess u could argue u know more about WNY basketball than him, I don't know.

If everything this season was the same, except that Monti coached Falls instead of Sal, you'd vote Falls number one.

I love how the difference between Falls/Canisius and Newfane/East Aurora has taken on a life of its own today!

EA LOST 2 MARYVALE as well. I guess u 4 got that?

And I said sometimes they ignore what the pollster says because of RECORD (maybe read what I wrote?) not just 'because' so James clearly doens't think they deserve 2 b ranked if they are 9-1 as u said.

And a guy who scores 27 vs Canisius and is out the entire game pretty much vs Falls does make a difference. If Monti was coaching Falls they would have beaten BK by 30 at home!

And YES - if Keith voted McKinley who lost to Joe's AT HOME who lost 2 Jamestown who lost 2 North #3 - then YES - I do at this point and time know how 2 vote better than him, agreed.

I didn't forget about Maryvale beating EA. Obviously, you have to refer to body of work for the last spot, because any team vying for that spot has at least some flaws.

You prefer a team that is 3-2 in its last five, with a loss to CSAT at home, who lost to EA, all recently. And the Amherst results as it applies to EA and Newfane means nothing. Got it.

If you're going to go the route of comparing wins over a common opponent as the crucial determining factor for a sport with a 20- to 28-game season -- not a good idea, BTW -- Webster Schroeder's results don't stack up vs. what Fairport has done to Penfield, Webster Thomas, Rush-Henrietta and Victor.

The reason Schroeder languishes in honorable mention is that for the moment (and that's the key phrase), I cannot see them handling Kearney and possibly McQuaid.

That sentiment may change in the near future (especially with the odds of Obonokoh being a factor down the stretch rowing ever dimmer), but I'm not going to jump Webster Schroeder above a bunch of other worthy teams across the state on the basis of a "quality loss."

By that logic, I'm sure there is some Division II NCAA team that's beaten a D-I, whose beaten a D-I, whose beaten a D-I, etc., that deserves to be in the top 25.

Obviously you're not following, James Johnson controls all that stuff...kidding.

Seriously though, thanks for chiming in. I have yet to see Fairport or Webster Shroeder, as is the case for everyone commenting here today. My original point to anything was to not discount Webster Schroeder as a lousy opponent for Falls, the reason I pointed out anything I could find.

If you have any thoughts on the raging Newfane/East Aurora debate, those are always welcome.

Webster Schroeder is at BK tonight.

I've seen Fairport.

I said everyone commenting here today. I wasn't counting your rebuttal to the...........situation as a comment.

BTW, I should have clarified. James Johnson does not do the Sec. 5 rankings recommendations for the NYSSWA.

I rely on James' wisdom for a ton of help throughout the sports year, but I make the Sec. 5 recommendations myself in football, basketball and boys lacrosse.

Is Pat Moran dead or not?

Nice to see you weigh in John on this topic. What's your take on BK? I saw them play Canisius and I thought they were inferior in every respect especially in the hustle and tenacity department. Since that revolves especially around effort I have to say I was bitterly disappointed in what I saw, with the exception of their point guard who I thought played quite well.

Remember when LeMoyne beat Syracuse a couple of years ago? Does that mean that LeMoyne could have taken down Georgetown who beat Cuse torwards the end of the season?

Hoopster: Kearney is an enigma. There are people who want to give them a free pass because Obonokoh has barely stepped foot on the court, and that's somewhat understandable.

On the other hand, there's a school of thought that the big fella kind of creates congestion inside on the offensive end of the court -- hey, drawing double-teams and/or never-ending weakside help tends to do that -- to the detriment of Thomas Bryant's ability to create.

Piled on top of everything else, BK's schedule is brutal. NIagara Falls did it back in the day and Jamesville-DeWitt and one of the Albany schools have been doing it in recent years.

But stepping up that many notches breaks new grouund for BK and for the people who watch them. It's hard to get a feel for where they're at, but I do rate them a mild disappointment thus far.

Section 5 bigs will really be smelling blood in the water if Schroeder beats BK tonight.

CC since u blew me off 2nite 4 the Newfane game I expect u 2 go 2 the Cuse game Monday NO HS games of note so u have no excuse. 3:30 tip lets leave by Noon so we have plenty of time 2 pig out on Varsity pizza! Hoopster come w us!

Love MIGs name, not liking MIGs game this week. Poll is explained on the blog. Live chat tomorrow night after PrepTalkTV Weekly if MIG wants to come to Jesus, so to speak. Our PTTV booking agent is trying to confirm deal with McKinley Macks to be on the show.

By the way just retweeted score - BK loses at Schroeder. Quality discussion here. By most. :-)

Big game Friday for CSAT @ Akron (who beat Newfane). If they win they should definitely be making their debut in the small school poll. Not only is Darnell Carson the top player in the N-O league, and one of the top players in WNY, but some of their others have stepped up in big games. Jaquille Peay is an athletic big man who averages 10 points & 12 rebounds a game and Darrell Wesley is shooting it at 45% from three. Akron is a really good defensive team while CSAT excels on offense so it should be an interesting game.

If I get out to a game on Friday night, it will be CSAT at Akron. The Tigers are great at slowing the game down and play great zone defense, while CSAT will try to push the tempo and has the right players to penetrate the zone. Also a rematch of B2 quarterfinal from last year - CSAT won that, along with two more to become the first charter school in Section VI to win a title.

Just to let you know Akron doesn't play zone other than as part of game plan for Newfane last night. Only giving up 41 ppg. Play 90% man-to-man and will hopefully be ready for showdown with Carson and CSAT in the Tiger Den.

The Falls/BK game was not very good period, and because they lost the next night to a team from Ohio on their homecourt doesn't mean a thing? Agree to that its too bad their schedule is full of not very good teams, hard to see them #1 based on all that. Also, BK guard getting plenty of D1 looks and would argue him out of lineup a bigger hit then anyone else and if you think Chinoso will be playing at Syracuse next season that's a stretch, still a lot of work to do on that game being tall only gets you so far. Go ECIC and NFL!

I disagree about the Falls/BK game being not very good. Low scoring and gritty, yes. But that's exactly what Falls needed it to be, so credit to them.

"Because they lost the next night to a team from Ohio on their homecourt doesn't mean a thing?"

- Correct. That Ohio team, Brunswick, is better than any team we have in WNY this year. The same reason there was no poll bearing on Canisius dropping two of three at the Jesuit Tournament.

Falls is ranked #1 because eight of 10 pollsters vote that way. Ignoring results completely, I've seen Falls three times this year and Canisius four times. They're a clear top two, but I think Falls is a little better and would win if they played.

Obokoh playing at Syracuse isn't a stretch:


If you're arguing the semantics of actual playing time, I'd argue that Boeheim wouldn't have recruited him to sit four years.

Thanks for the reply John! Always enjoyable to read your stuff regardless of the sport. Keep up the great work, Mr. President!

......TML1000.....what are you talking about...?J/K!!im going to make this short...LOL.im totally disabled and get to the games i can and i would much rather be in a room talking with you all,but thats impossible.you do have a point with my style and lehgth of postas it seemd as thing come to mind i use the dots to kind of seperate my points.i know alot about basketball and do own B2 SectionVI Championship patch but later fell to McKinley who had 2 guys that could and did dunk in the B1/B2 playoff at the Macks Gym,dont recall the other guy but i think one guys name was Ray Crawford.Lafeyette had a guy named Lester Rowe back then.Lockport had LaVern Evans who i think may have went to Marshall..so you can easily figure out what school i went to and when with alittle home work.all this talk about polls and who is and who is not or the haves & the have nots.your are all very respected by me as i respect everyone unless given a reason to otherwise.it makes for some crazy and at time borderline logic....lets wait till after Buff State to the polls are out.all theis we beat the,they,beat us,but us beat them cause gramma burnt the cookies!!!!!ive watched games won that shouls have benn blowout by the other team and ive seen it the other way around all these rankings do is set the kids up for over expectations.i see teams i know could crush other if they played all for quarters as hard as the first...play the whole game,but every team has a few players who actually have the ability tosay"the heck with it"those things happen and we all know it,is it right,of course not...but given the chance a bad rgg can lose a game and that will never show in the polls...i like the banter it breeds so im all for it and im really not a bad guy just stuck at home and save all my out of house time to watch a kid that has more heart than all of Hallmarks Valentines day card.so this is all i got for the most oart and please take it into consideration as no one has bashed me,but probably couldnt blame you if you did,i just love the game,played it,and even played with the old guys and my kids till that fateful day at the school 192 rehab project to make it a better school,I fell through an uncovered hole in the floor and ended life as i knew it.im on a mission to get more inline with smaller post and propper puntuation...please accept my apologies my fellow basketball lovers,its hard to be down most the times and have this connection to the world and not try to get some questions,answers,and information.please accept my apology and im working on these things so you can enjoy muy opinions as i do yours....thanks guys and gals if we have some reading my post~~~ILOVETHISGAME.

BK finally figured out in the second half at St Joes that they have a huge height advantage on every team they play in WNY. After living on the perimeter for there first two and half games in Buffalo, they finally decided that they could score at will down low. St Joes delayed the inevitable in the third quarter with some three quarter court pressure that turned BK and gave them some offensive opportunities, but BK eventually adjusted and started getting the ball to the rim. It was a total departure in form from the NF, Can. games and first half at SJ

Thanks for the recap PJB!! I was wondering if anyone would provide some info on the game.

I would like to correct something I mentioned to MIG at the UB game Wednesday regarding seedings.

I had said that if the Falls goes 14-0 in league they will be the top seed in AA regardless of what happens in ECIC I the rest of the way. When checking my math...this is not true. If Falls goes 14-0, they will accumulate 64 power points(8 wins over AA teams at 5 points a piece for 40 points and 6 wins over A teams at 4 points a piece for 24 points). 64/14 = 4.571

With J'town and North both with one league loss...assuming the winner of their second matchup does not lose again in the league and finishes 11-1, they would have 55 power points. 55/12 = 4.583

Thus, the winner of the second North/J'town game would get the top seed by .012 of a point over the Falls. Assuming Clarence loses the second game to J'town, the J'tonw/North winner would get the three seed, KW will get the four seed if they go 12-2 and Clarence will get the five if the finish with at least three losses in league.

Meant to say the J'town/North loser will get the three seed in the last paragraph.

With Centercourt taking time off I'll get some Random Smatterings srarted.

Please note, the following is not a rant directed at Kieth McShea, it is directed towards his editors.

If the Buffalo New's coverage of High School Sports was half as good as Rochester's Democrat and Chronicle said, coverage would be twice as good as it is now.

You can do better and the parents of high school athletes would thank you by purchasing more papers.

It was tough to see St. Joe's have a 4th quarter lead against a quality opponent slip away again. They had a chance to put Kearney away and couldn't capatilize.

dont all games with great teams seam to end that way.....or has the sleeping BK team awaken.would have liked to see joes take it.....but as i said before.....close games and win are great for watching ,enjoying......but only mean squat in the finals in glens falls.so cheer on our team till they are done and enjoys the great sport of high school basketball....oh....and the only weekly polls that are worth the paper there printed on is state rankings.....now if were in the top 10 there cool.....

Regarding Walter W's comment:

Firstly, I need to preface this by saying I have friends at the Democrat and Chronicle -- former colleagues -- who are outstanding at what they do. My criticism is not aimed at the writers and sports editors.

Having said that, though, the idea that D&C H.S. coverage is superior to what the Buffalo News does is laughable.

The behavior of top-leavel management at the two papers is the classic night-and-day proposition. The D&C staff is too small for a market with so many pro teams (albeit almost all are minor-league sports), let alone the ridiculous number of Division III colleges and high schools needing attention from September thru June.

Coupled with the total lack of space in the print edition (Buffalo's Sunday paper is twice as large as Rochester's, and the situation isn't much better the other six days) and the astonishingly crappy HighSchoolSports.net software the D&C is required to use, and it's a complete mismatch.

That sounds like a TKO for tbn and km.

Since you believe in the superiority of the Buffalo News please explain how after virtually every game played by #2 ranked Canisius the box score is incorrect.

Look closely the points are always given to the wrong MacDonald.


Something very strange is happening when points are entered for Canisius' MacDonalds. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. We will work to address it.

Of course, letting us know about it, or your other thoughts about our coverage, would be more easily received if you emailed our sports editor, whose email is on the front page of the sports section every day, or me, whose email is at the bottom of every story I write (which has included at least three Canisius games in which Matt MacDonald has been mentioned).

And if you believe in the inferiority of the Buffalo News, please explain, beyond a typo regarding one player, why.

Thanks to Mr. Moriello, as always, for his input.

Kearney finally figured out they had a height advantage in the second half of the St. Joes game? I would have thought they would have figured that out at the team picture during preseason. A mild disappointment so far? I would equate their season with the Lakers so far. Maybe they can turn it around, but I doubt it. Niagara Falls and Jamesville Dewitt, along with the recent Nichols state champs did indeed step up there schedules in past years. The difference was they handled their business. Kearney needs to figure out why they are not. Is Phil Jackson still available??

The problem at BK is clear to any person with at least some basketball sense and it definitely will not change this year. They have alot of young talent there, so there is still hope for that team in future years.

I miss CC

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