Poll Ballots - Week 1 - 2014

As a pollster for the Buffalo News, I'm asked to send in my weekly ballots ranking the top ten large and small schools.  The polls are based on games played through Sunday of each week.  Here's a look at how I see them and some of the rationale used to get there.

 

Large Schools

1. Canisius (MMA) - You can't start the season much better than knocking off the defending CHSAA Class A state champions, who brought back four starters, two of which will play for Manhattan College.  Even more impressive, the Crusaders did it with four new starters - three of which are underclassmen, including two sophomores.  

2. McKinley (A1) - They've only played once, but showed enough in 32 minutes this season that I'm comfortable putting them this high, despite returning no starters. 

3. Jamestown (AA) - Opened with a 20-point home loss to Greece Athena before hammering Bennett the following night.  I'll give them the nod as the top Class AA school because they've earned that respect.  Greece Athena might be the top Class AA school between here and Syracuse, and possibly beyond.

4. Clarence (AA) - Tough to start off any better than the Red Devils have, and they certainly have an argument to be ahead of Jamestown.  But I'll need to see them end a 13-game skid to the Red Raiders or see Jamestown lose tomorrow at Williamsville North before they'll get the bump.

5. Timon/St. Jude (MMA) - Despite losses to East, Olean, and Aquinas, I think the Tigers grab this spot on the strength of their win against Williamsville North at the Cataract City Classic. I also think the losses they suffered would happen to all the teams I have below them.

6. Williamsville North (AA) - Rebounded from an overtime loss to Timon and a last second home loss to Clarence, with a nice victory over visiting Lancaster.   Jamestown comes a knocking tomorrow night, which likely means another dramatic finish for the Spartans - one they hope to be on a different end of this time around.

7. Amherst (A2) - Loss to Clarence on an Elliott Case buzzer-beater gets them a spot right next to the Spartans who also lost by two points to the Red Devils.

8. St. Joe's (MMA) - Winners of the Lockport Tournament have a full plate this week, playing Bishop Kearney, Park, and McKinley.

9. Lockport (AA) - A 3-1 start with its only loss in overtime to St. Joe's.  A very important week for the Lions as they visit both Kenmore West and North Tonawanda.  We'll know by week's end if they are really the Kings of the jungle, or at least the NFL.

10. Kenmore West (AA) - Rebounded from a season-opening loss to McKinley with a pair of 40-point wins and then went into the Lumber Yard and handed North Tonawanda a 10-point loss.  Tomorrow night is a big one for the Blue Devils against visiting Lockport.

 

Small Schools

1. Olean (B1) - After taking care of Timon at home, the Huskies went out to Rochester and made a statement at Bishop Kearney in a 20-point win over the defending Class AA state champions.  That result swayed me, because until then, I had a different team in mind for number one.

2. East (B2) - The Panthers have just one game in the books, but it was a doozy - a 23-point win against Timon - the same Timon that lost by only five at Olean.  As I wrote above, the Huskies beating Kearney swayed me, but if Rasheed Paul enters the East lineup and puts them at yet another level, I might just sway back.

3. St. Mary's (MMA) - Led the entire contest against Middle College and looked like a team with a lot of chemistry along the way.  Lancer Nation will be a tough out this season.

4. Fredonia (B1) - Tough to gage them early on with a win over Falconer/Frewsburg and a loss to Greece Athena.  But recalling the team from last season and judging by the start Dylan Meyer is having, they should be highly regarded.  The Hillbillies are at Lackawanna tomorrow night.

5. Randolph (C2) - Cardinals 74, Maple Grove 19 - no, that's not a football score. The rematch is tomorrow, sorry Red Dragons.

6. Middle College (C1) - I saw enough from the Kats in their loss to St. Mary's to know they belong up here and that they'll be at JCC at season's end looking for another sectional crown.

7. Nichols (MMA) - They beat a very good Cleveland Hill team in a game that I saw, then lost badly to Lancaster in one that I missed.  But from what I did see of them, I'd take them over...

8. Park (MMA) - the Pioneers, who have joined the MMA this year and started fast.  Earned a pair of significant wins this weekend against Health Sciences and Silver Creek, after trailing in both contests.  Host Canisius tomorrow night.

9. Silver Creek (C1) - Billy Brooks has been phenomonal for the Black Knights, who will be a dangerous team once again when they get Kaine Kettle back in their lineup.

10. Health Sciences (B2) - The Falcons have started 6-1, with their only loss coming at Park by five points.

 

-centercourt

@centercourt42

Comments

[The bottom line]

Great job centercourt, AA should be unbelievable come February with no powerhouse teams and no guaranteed Falls Jamestown matchup. I am passionate and love to sound off about our coach only because we know we are so blessed to be in the situation where we know that we will always hold the coaching advantage in close games. There are teams that do well when they have superior talent and then fall on their faces when they don't, example MG this season. That's coaching and something we will never have to worry about happening. Blessed to not be like many of the teams in our league who have guys just collecting a check.

[TML1000]

Large School Poll
1. Canisius
2. McKinley
3. Clarence
4. Jamestown
5. St. Joe's
6. Wil North
7. Lockport
8. Ken West
9. Amherst
10. NT

HM - NF, Wil East, Iroquois, Cheektowaga

I am not putting Timon as a large school.

[centercourt]

TML -

I moved your prior comment over to the proper post's comments.

I'm having a hard time understanding why you are taking a stance against Timon as a large school. I realize they have enrollment numbers that would make them a small school. So does Bishop Kearney - they'd be in Class C if we went strictly by the numbers. Thank goodness they don't.

If your counterpoint about Timon is either A) They're an all boys school or B) They aren't at the level of BK, I say the same thing to either...so what. One of the most maddening things to me about the way both Aquinas & BK handle business is the inconsistency of how they classify themselves. How about just staying in Class AA, the same way Timon stays in Class A every single year.

When the Section V private powers anticipate a down year, they drop in classification. When things are good, they do the "noble" thing and move up. I say, just stay put. In 2010, Orchard Park basketball had a talented team that reached Buff State. But since then, they've been pretty down in hoops. It doesn't mean they get to be a Class B school for a couple seasons, it means they deal with it. The major difference of course, they are limited to whatever comes up through the pipe lines. Not the case with private schools - a down year is usually just a temporary setback until a new influx of varsity age talent enrolls in school.

Timon has an advantage in gaining talent and wants to be considered a big dog. They certainly compete with the big dogs just fine. To consider them a small school when they don't even consider themselves a small school is a head scratcher. Unless you consider Bishop Kearney a small school also. Otherwise, it's nothing more than a double standard.

[hoopster]

Checking out the blog thanks to your invite CC. Good to see you maintaining your high standards. A great service to WNY hoop fans. And I know there is a ton of appreciation of your effort and pin point observations.

Timon played in the B bracket several years back as a one-time occurrence.

I can't add anything to the polls, but unless your a Canisius fan, and there are many, the MMAA has been a bore recently. Even St. Joe's is having a hard time staying in the hunt. WNY hoops is missing the battles of yesteryear when it was typically a battle between the two MMAA titans for supremacy with St. Mary's, Timon, St. Francis and Nichols occasionally giving them a run for their money. It seems Timon is on the rise and you darn well know Coach Simon and Herlan won't let the current state of affairs continue much longer.

Hey just like the old days, CC, TML and me. All we need now is MIG, JWH12 and Daddy McShea and a few others.......

[TML1000]

To me, putting Timon as a large or small is never going to matter since they do not play in the section or the NYSPHSAA playoffs. The only way it will ever "matter" is if Timon were to advance to Fed. I guess to me I am going by numbers due to the fact that yes, Timon can draw from anywhere, however, they will not be competing in the same playoff system as public schools, unlike BK does. I have a similar stance in regards to the section V power privates...BK and AQ should definitely be fixtures in AA. It is much worse on the girls side...BK girls won states in class C last year with a team that likely would have advanced to Troy in any class but AA. Aquinas girls also won states in class B a few years back. It is a joke that BK/AQ can have swapped back and forth recently between the larger classes but at least they aren't playing down to their "true" classification. I am sure we all remember the very strong BK teams from 5-6 years ago that beat Olean in the regionals on their way to a class B title.

By the same line of thinking, if you tab Timon as a large school, why not do the same for Nichols? I do not recall if Nichols was ranked as a large school during their golden years with their Fed run but according to your above explanation, they definitely should have been. However, they are now ranked in your small school poll. To my knowledge, the school has not dropped in enrollment...they just are not as good as they were a few years back, but still schedule some decent larger opponents. I know St. Mary's has always been classified as s small school but why not move them up to a large as well? They have been nearly as competitive as Timon the past number of seasons and also play many large schools.

In all, I put Timon with schools like Mary's and Nichols because that is around the level they have been recently. If I were to put Timon as a large, I would also move up the other two schools.

[TML1000]

AQ girls actually lost in the final in class B a few years back with Nicole Bini, but my point remains the same.

[WHY ?]

Can we make a couple of new rules ? 1. No begging CC to come watch your own kids. 2. No posting comments about your own kids.

[centercourt]

Nichols was ranked in the large school poll in its golden years 2008, 2009, & 2010 and was classified a Class A school by the CHSAA. The difference between Timon & the Nichols example is Timon has chosen to play up, while Nichols was moved up by the CHSAA and then returned to Class B after all the talent left. I agree with you about them. If you are good enough to win the Fed in Class A, stay there, build your program back up, and try it again.

St. Mary's is fine in Class B in my opinion, because they haven't even won a Class B Fed yet. But as I just wrote, once you've reached the top of the mountain as Nichols did, I think you belong there to stay.

The example hoopster cited of Timon playing in Class B was in 2008, and it was done by the CHSAA, not Timon. That year, it was early January and all of a sudden, Nichols gets moved up to an A and Timon gets demoted to Class B against its will. The kicker to the whole thing was that the two schools played each other less than a week later, and Timon beat Nichols.

[centercourt]

Sorry WHY?, we can't just make new rules now - the season is underway. I'm actually thinking I might go watch Barker, led by Jake Haight, tonight. Besides, From the North is far from the only guy to come on here posting comments about his own kid. The difference is, he owns it. As kooky as he can be (sometimes you can get a little kooky North), I welcome it. Just as I welcome everyone else who responds by telling him he's nuts.

Just wait until McShea is God gets warmed up for the season and starts pushing everyone's buttons.

[cmiller]

bottom line -- Silver Creek kids have to learn that they have to attend school in order to be a student athlete! Would like to see you promote the successful "student athletes" in WNY not just the players. Place more emphasis on all the kids that are successful in the classroom and on the court. If a kid is not in school during the week they should not be allowed to play in the next game.

[StateChamps2003]

Where is centercourt's "Week Ahead" blog post that would feature his 'game of the week'? Am I imagining that this was even a weekly blog post?

[Jayhawks]

Sleeping on lackawanna but no hard feelings we going to go earn a spot on this poll tomorrow against fredonia and then Cleveland hill on Thursday!!! Get ready to have us ranked the next time

[centercourt]

cmiller -

I agree that kids should have to attend school in order to play. But this is a basketball blog and I will not be looking into the kids grades in order to glorify the most successful students. There are plenty of awards for good students.

StateChamps2003 -

I start those posts following the holidays.

Jayhawks -

I like it. You guys go take care of business and I'll have a vote waiting for you.

[jim]

Nothing for Lancaster? Blew out Nichols, beat Maryvale and a close single digit loss to will north.

[Rusty Schakelford]

The chances of the Maroon & White equaling the talent pool that Canisius has enjoyed the last several years will be difficult.
Canisius coach and Former RPI standout Kyle Husband just does a better job at putting his best players in a situation where they can score and keep them interested in the offense.
He just relates better to his players and can get them more "juiced" to compete and win. Because he get's more player's prepared to play at the next level the pipeline will keep directing the better player's to Delaware Avenue. Look for Canisius to maintain their MMA championship form for years to come.

[game]

it doesnt take a genius to figure out school...where they play and what class....if schools suckers class or division the powers that be(which are many who post here)will call them exactly what they are.out of their league either for good or for bad....if BK has a stacked team...drops to a lower level to gain a crown...they are not really champs in the eyes of those who know basketball. It will end up to the point where winning in some leagues or classes/divisions will be a great achievement or a simple case of bunny sucking to appear to be a great team...TEAMS THAT DO NOT PLAY WHERE THEY BELONG ARE POOR PROGRAMS...PERIOD.there are some schools with big numbers who just may not have the talent....we cant start putting teams based on the talent they may or may not have and most do the best they can to keep it a level playing feild.And whorse yet is when parents pull their kids to other districts to get Jr. a better supporting cast to make him appear a little better than he really is. I truely talented player will draw looks from people if he is that good because he makes people around him better. But these days to many of these Pampered Players find it far to easy to pick another school like a college "walk on".If you need to join a team with more "like" talent maybe your not as good as the mirror says you are. Now I know there are cases where this is not the way it is and they move for coaching problems or academic problems where players want to go to a higher achieving school for both academics and athletics...but that is usually the lesser or these "jumpers". It may do alittle justice to give some of these players and schools who play with what they got....the way players are.... do I dare say recruited,maybe a seperate blog portion of kids and schools who play with what they have and where the kindergarden class photo and the senior class photo are from the same school. Yes their are some exceptions and yes there are some good reasons to transfer...but its getting a bit out of hand to the point where schools need to change class based on the talent they bring in or have on a given year. Its a tough call as there are some legit things...but to have your school hang down a division to win it....everyone can see it and its only worth the trophy and patch you get as the people who know basketball look at you in dismay.And I talk about no one in particular but just the way some work the system knowing that there is no exact way to do it.Kudos to the teams who play with the level they are capable of....you can be proud./....and a chance to be a true champoin in the eyes of all the basketball powers that be. Good luck on great play and a great season to all teams.

[game]

I was not meaning a knock on BK...they play where they should...i mis spoke....and correct myself.

[game]

going back and reading a short little post mentioned about student grades and attendence. That may be an impossiblity but should be looked into or maybe even reported as if a player doesnt attend school on a "very regular" basis and at least carry 81% average or above he doesnt deserve the exposure over a hard working player on and off the court. I think their were several dozen eggs left on some faces of those waiting for a certain players return from an injury only to find he was in good enough shape to do the unthinkable. and although I dont believe its CC job to screen the players he watches and writes about im sure there would be some volunteers(maybe someone disabled and dont work)that could call schools and ask for some information as to their accomplishments in school before we shower them with love for their work on the courts. You can be the best player in the area but if you have poor grades and poor attendance their name would have no business on any print having to do with sports as written in most school code of conduct. And too many times these players are allowed to play and worship so to speak which will only land them in a prep school for a year to do what their school failed them with or a Community College to give them the credits to play where they have the ability to play but again failed by their school. This happens and we all know it.

[Neil Lewis]

East high just beat South Park bye 54 WOW!!!!!!!!!

[WNYHOOPS]

Game, easy on the long posts man. Paragraphs and less run on sentences help the eyes bit...

[From the North]

Barker 67 Pembroke 31

[StateChamps2003]

haha. I agree with WNYHOOPS. I'm sure you have some insightful stuff to say but when I see a loooong paragraph, I get uninterested even before reading the first sentence and keep scrolling down.

[game]

yea...agreed and will do so..had something under my skin but its all good. thanks for the polite request and i apoligize..my bad.

[game]

maybe CC would be kind enough to delete those 2 long posts...points been made....cant an edit option be added CC>>> those orange shoes can ball though cant they...if you went tonite...ttys...

[From the North]

CC I hope you enjoyed the game last night the drive had to be brutal. Can't wait to see your opinion of how the team looked. Sincerely North!

[Are You Serious]

CC I'd like to schedule a visit from you in advance to one of my future newborn's games. So free up some calendar space for the winter of 2030. Be there or be square! I'll let you know what school he plays for because I'm going to transfer him at least 20 times. I'm going to do all of his homework too. Just in case "game" calls the school to gather some information about his accomplishments in the classroom.

That's what it's all about right? Trying to dig up dirt on kids so you can tear them down on this site. Maybe some kids do get special treatment or whatever other nonsense you're spewing but they are kids. Do you really think these kids are hatching these transfer plans? All you'd be doing is dragging a young person's name through the mud and the only thing they'd be guilty of is taking advice from the people they trust. This is a site about high school basketball you nitwit. It's about basketball because it's a basketball site, about basketball.

You're pathetic. Get a life.

[buffbball]

Rusty, agree Husband does a great job with Canisuis.
But he is getting so much talent these kids can almost coach themselves.They usually have players on JV that will start on any other program in WNY. Example Latterance Reed and Truehart from last year. The younger kids aroung the buffalo area all want to go to cansius , so you are correct there domination will continue for a long time.

[johnjonny]

CMiller-
Looking at the box scores, Silver Creek has only had all 5 starters participate in 1 game this year. If you look at other teams in non-affluent communities you will see very similar situations. I am assuming you have a personal connection and possibly hidden agenda when you single out Silver Creek. If the district is not playing the athletes, I’m assuming they are not glorifying their student athletes when they are not going to school. The same could be said for all after school activities. If students are not doing well academically or not attending school as often as they should…should they not be glorified on stage after a play or after a band/chorus concert with applause. Many of the kids come from unfortunate circumstances and didn’t grow up the way you did. Many kids in that community don’t get a fair shot and very few have had the caring and nurturing components in their lives that they need to be successful academically. I applaud their school district for the amount of energy they put into their kids. It is easy to just tell them to go away. It doesn’t look like they choose easy. If you have ever seen them play, giving all the factors…they should be glorified!

[Rusty Schakelford]

Style of play matter's. Slow play of motion offense doesn't cut it. Big men don't touch the ball when guards can't, or refuse to make post entry passes.
Kids want to get out and run, and press defensively. Canisius gives them all of that. In the simpilest of terms, it is MORE FUN.

[PJB]

Rusty

I agree its more fun to run the break by forcing turnovers and it has certainly served Canisius well in WNY. If that is their goal then they are fine. If the wish to advance in the State playoffs they need to have the option to work inside out offensively. I have watched a few of their games this year and can count on one hand the number of times that their bigs (#24 and 15) touched the ball in the half court offense. Almost all the points #24 gets are on the break or offensive rebounds.

I think Coach Husband does an exceptional job in many areas(especially at the defensive end of the floor), I just feel they need to utilize the bigs offensively in order to reach their full potential.

Game vs Nazareth they scored 44 points, so I would say that against one of the better teams Statewide they were not getting out and running, because those teams are better at handling the defensive pressure, that is Canisius' strength and generates a good portion of their offense in local games.I just think that one of their top asset in the half court offense is being under utilized.

[Rusty Schakelford]

That goes back to the "lost art" of the post entry past.
Fundumentals lacking and not enough time put into development of the fundamentals of passing and recieving a pass.

[Shaq]

Disagree. I'm sure the talent at Canisius could handle the "art" of the entry pass. We are talking about a kid with multiple D-I offers running the point. They just play the style they are coached to play...bombs away.

[Canisius lover]

Canisius does not seem to play hard enough. Bigs are inexperienced and guards do not score well enough. They will not go as far as everyone thinks. The big from Nazareth was not skilled as well. Once they see a skilled big man they will struggle without scoring gaurds. In WNY they are the best, outside here they may struggle. Overall they do not score enough and seem flat on offense. They will role the MMA regardless. Sorry to say.

[sjci]

what is going on at my alma mater? did we really lose to park last night? i thought our low point was losing by 30 to st marys in the cup 2 years ago but this is way worse. with chs rolling, are we ever gonna be good again?

[Rusty Schakelford]

NO!!!!