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Tuesday, January 14, 2014

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I agree with you CC. Nothing wrong with using a strong descriptive word that accurately describes the result of a high school basketball game.

Bravo...bravo...bravo. I saw this as well CC and was taken back by the young news reporter calling out the Amherst twitter account. Glad you did a post on this.

Getting offended is a choice. Words only have the meaning and power you choose to give them. If this philosophy were adopted by more people, it would empower individuals and dismantle the PC thought police.

I run @JFK_Athletics on Twitter. Do I get some flack for describing the game, truly how it's being played? Of course. But, it's the fact that it's happening. Yes, you don't want to see your team lose by 40-50 points, but it happens. I will let the criticism keep coming, but I will keep doing what I do. Nothing wrong with stating the truth...

Brian...I tweeted out a very similar message in regards to a certain HS sports discussion in the fall. That basically sums up my thoughts.

The "police" in this case stated that, "kids who work hard day in and day out deserve more than that." that statement is debatable itself...how do we know that particular team works hard everyday? Maybe they do or maybe they did not, at least prior to this game and maybe that is why the result was a dismantling.

This "uber-coddling" of society provides no benefit to anyone. Do people honestly believe that the team on the wrong end of a blow-out does not know why they were blown out? Whether it be due to a talent gap, lack of preparation, etc? Many adults do not give kids enough credit where it is due, both to the winning team for playing well and to the losing team for having the ability to take responsibility for the loss.

If Springville, or any other team in this situation, truly does not like being dismantled, or not like that someone tweeted it...they have a simple choice...WORK HARDER, GET BETTER and STEP UP. That goes for anyone in any situation.

Do you every tell your children not to try there hardest in school not to try to get a 100.
Does your employer tell you not to do a good job. Even during blowouts when second and third stringers go in they have every right to try their best.

oh snap! that was cool. and adults always be telling kids to watch what they tweet.now whats up?

Great job as always CC. What is your pinion on what most would call running up the score. I have mixed feelings on the subject having been on both sides. It some what coincides with dismantling a team. I'd love to hear your opinion cc.

I see your perspective. However, I see where the parent is coming from, especially a parent from the team that was dismantled. It's very frustrating to be constantly dismantled. If it's happening when the parents son is a senior, the kid probably has been losing for years through the JV, modified and youth levels. It's not being dismantled for a game that's frustrating, being dismantled for at least seven years is the frustrating part. Seeing it in the newspaper or social media might be a frustrated father's way of standing up for their defeated, deflated son. I'm not saying the behavior is right, but I understand.

I cut my teeth in the business at the Democrat and Chronicle in Rochester, where the use of physical descriptions -- mauled, clobbered, ripped, etc. -- was strongly discouraged in high school roundups and essentially banned in prep headlines.

Well, guess what? When you're compiling a roundup of 20 to 40 games, as we often did back in the day, you could only use downed, defeated, edged and bested so many times before you bore the reader to tears and pretty much ripped the soul out of the rewrite guy who has to handle the roundup 150 times a year.

I don't give a full-throated endorsement of physical descriptions, but the idea that such writing hurts the feelings of varsity athletes and thus must be avoided is ludicrous.

Hello!

You ... play ... to ... win ... the ... game.

If you're playing it right, it's losing that hurts -- and not the words used to describe the game.

If you can't deal with it, then it's time for you to retreat to what a local coach wonderfully described as the "juice-box society" in which all the toddlers play the exact number of minutes, no one is allowed to officially keep score (though every kid there knows the exact score at any given moment) and everyone gets a trophy at the end of the year no matter how badly they suck.

What day is it?
What day is it?
That's right its hump day.
Describing a game for what it is would be the job of the sports writer, tweeter, sports dept. I agree with the above posts the kids on such team know that they were dismantled, its mom and dad that cannot handle that fact.

Mom, Dad, and a couple of self-righteous alumni who apparently feel their picture taking position at a local newspaper outlet somehow qualifies them as an editor of sorts. If in fact it is true that a photographer attempted to shame a student over a tweet, then maybe his boss should hold him accountable or at least remind him that his actions informally represent his newspaper.

I am curious from a coaches point of view- what is the proper way to dismantle an obviously over-matched team?

Guest -

I response to your question, "What is your opinion on what most would call running up the score."?

I think once the game has entered the fourth quarter and it is in hand, starters should come out and everyone should play. I think the reserves should be able to come in and go all out, without regard to the score, except for the very last possession when the shot clock is off - at which point they should allow the clock to run out.

Anyone remember when Traditional blew out (annihilated?) Performing Arts by 100 points when they had Jacobs, French and George??? People are complaining about "dismantling" a team for 20 or 30 points? Give me a break. Try having some real problems like a 100 point loss.

There is no good answer to this topic. There is the viewpoint of the journalists who want to accurately describe the game without having to use the same words over and over. Then there is the viewpoint of the educators and most coaches which is, "let's not humiliate kids more than they feel already" after losing by a lopsided score. Most of the people on this blog would fall under the umbrella of "fan" as they are not in an official capacity for a team or school.
I have been "fortunate" to have been on both sides of this kind of game as a coach, having both won and lost games by 50+ points. Only truly sick individuals would revel in winning such a game. I taught my players in those situations to play the game hard, accept victory with class, and congratulate the opponents for the effort. When we lost big, I told my players to congratulete the (hopefully) gracious victors, and keep their heads up. The media is going to do what they do no matter what. If they wanted to do so, they could find words that would accurately describe the game without using words that are insulting to the losing team. Some examples would be, "triumphed concincingly" or "led all the way in defeating" or "outran" or "scored a big victory". Really all someone needs is a thesaurus and some compassion.

Last nights game was close at the half way mark four point difference. By the end of the 3rd the game was no longer in question. By the mid way point of the fourth all reserves were playing for both teams a class act by both coaches. That is in my opinion of how it should be played.

Some good and quite valid points from many here especially Coach Schunk; however I do want to put this out there: Some great teams have lost their edge by being too compassionate and " classy" and the types of teams that win state championships; particularly in the larger classes ; take care of business; wear down their opponents; and rip their hearts out then shake hands after the victory.

Improvement is the goal. So the dominate team/players should always be challenged by their coach, when not by the opponent, to refine the next weak points of their game, just like in the classroom. i.e. players with a weak off hand must drive that way, post players who can score their signature move at will must score using the next move they need to refine, shooters must work on step backs only, pivots off screens or shooting from their weak spots on the floor…if you blew someone out but nobody improved time was wasted.

The goal of the coach should be to control the part of the schedule he can control to sufficiently challenge his team. We kenw some years that there would be 3-4 games where we probably would win handily; we tweaked our goals for games like that because winning a game 70-40 or winning 100-20 really meant nothing. The games that mattered were the contested games, because eventually to win a title you have to win contested games.

Words of wisdom from Coach Schuck! I seen the original tweet when it first appeared and thought negatively about the use of words as well... mostly because when games are won by such a deficient it was obviously a lopsided game and just gets ridiculous to "run the score up". I do believe HS sports are about winning but there are so many other lessons learned or should be during each practice and/or game... as pointed out by Brian. I will say that we should remember that it is usually kids running the Twitter feed... enough said.

68-42 is not running up the score...at all.

Some real good replys and as it it goes....some not. Thats what keeps us from falling asleep!! "When a game is over and you see someone who didnt know the outcomeI hope they couldn't tell by your actions weather you outscored an opponent or the opponent outscored you."

---John Wooden

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